Best Patrick McKenzie Podcasts (2025)

1
The past, present, and future of AI, with Stripe 1:33:48

4d ago1:33:48

1:33:48

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Emily Sands, Head of Information at Stripe, to discuss how they leverage AI to process over $1.4 trillion annually, while navigating the complex web of merchants, banks, and payment rails that facilitate online commerce. Patrick and Emily cover how Stripe’s layered stack of AI combats sophisticated card testi…

1
E126: Data Center Economics and AI Energy Requirements w/ Patrick McKenzie and Azeem Azhar 1:17:05

24d ago1:17:05

1:17:05

Today on Upstream, we’re releasing Patrick MacKenzie's interview with Azeem Azhar which originally aired in February 2025 on Complex Systems. They discuss the economics and infrastructure of data centers, comparing historical infrastructure rollouts to modern AI-driven data center needs, and explore the implications of exponential power demands, in…

1
E132: AI Managers, US vs China Analysis, and AI Art w/ Byrne Hobart 53:18

3d ago53:18

53:18

Today on Upstream, we’re sharing an episode of The Riff (originally aired on April 1, 2025). Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart explore the shifting dynamics of global trade between China and the US, the potential for AI to replace senior rather than junior roles in the workplace, and the economic structure of live entertainment markets like StubHub. …

1
E131: Abundance Agenda, The New Right, and 2008 Retrospective w/ Noah Smith 1:09:57

5d ago1:09:57

1:09:57

Today on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith discuss the Abundance Agenda by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, the impact of the 2008 recession, Obama's presidency, and shifts in political ideology, focusing on the 'New Right' and its cultural and economic implications, while also touching upon the economic recovery strategies post-2008. This epis…

1
Sheilagh Ogilvie on Epidemics, Guilds, and the Persistence of Bad Institutions 59:11

5d ago59:11

59:11

Sheilagh Ogilvie has spent decades examining the institutional structures that shaped European economic history, challenging conventional wisdom about everything from guilds to marriage patterns. In her conversation with Tyler, she reveals how studying pandemic responses from the Black Death to COVID-19 provides a unique lens for understanding deep…

1
E130: Elon Musk’s Network Effects and Checking in on Chinese AI w/ Byrne Hobart 1:02:20

10d ago1:02:20

1:02:20

This week on Upstream, we're releasing an episode of The Riff (originally aired on March 25, 2025) where Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart discuss Don Jr.'s leveraging of the Trump brand, Dustin Moskovitz's departure to address AI risks, economic impacts of various policies, and geopolitical considerations with a focus on AI and China's tech ambition…

1
No, poor people aren’t funding your credit card rewards 1:06:47

11d ago1:06:47

1:06:47

In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) challenges a recent Atlantic article claiming that low-income cardholders subsidize credit card rewards through high interest payments. Drawing from his Bits About Money essay Anatomy of a credit card rewards program, Patrick explains that rewards are primarily funded by interchange fees paid by merchants…

1
E129: Dark Triad, Romantic Partner Selection, and Dating Advice w/ Rob Henderson 1:05:20

12d ago1:05:20

1:05:20

Today on Upstream, Erik Torenberg interviews author Rob Henderson about modern romance, discussing evolutionary psychology, the attraction to dark triad men, dating apps, and practical advice for men seeking romantic partners. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our s…

1
E128: US-Europe Relations, How Japan Can Strengthen The Yen, and Predicting AI’s Growth Effects w/ Noah Smith 55:36

16d ago55:36

55:36

Today on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith analyze America's European withdrawal, China's selective globalization strategy, and tempers expectations about AI's economic impact while considering GDP measurement challenges. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏Help shape our sh…

1
Points, profits, and packed planes, with Gary Leff 1:31:27

18d ago1:31:27

1:31:27

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Gary Leff, the author of "View from the Wing", to discuss the economic systems behind airlines and loyalty programs. They discuss how airlines manage to stay profitable despite razor-thin margins, the economics of frequent flyer programs, and why these programs often generate more value than the airlines them…

1
E127: The Tech Right and How The Left Can Fix Itself w/ Jon Askonas 48:10

19d ago48:10

48:10

Today on Upstream, we’re airing Erik Torenberg’s conversation with Jon Askonas. They explore the emerging coalition between MAGA supporters and Silicon Valley tech leaders, examines the underlying political realignment, the tensions and fault lines within this coalition, and the potential future conflicts surrounding issues like immigration and tra…

1
Ezra Klein on the Abundance Agenda 1:08:40

19d ago1:08:40

1:08:40

What happens when a liberal thinker shifts his attention from polarization to economic abundance? Ezra Klein’s new book with Derek Thompson, Abundance, argues for an agenda of increased housing, infrastructure, clean energy, and innovation. But does abundance clash with polarization—or offer a way through it? In this conversation, Ezra and Tyler di…

1
Tax the dirt, with Lars Doucet & Greg Miller 1:17:07

25d ago1:17:07

1:17:07

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Lars Doucet and Greg Miller, co-founders who have just launched the Center for Land Economics, to discuss improving property taxation in the US. They explore how shifting taxes from buildings to land could transform development patterns, why California's property tax caps coincide with its housing crisis, and…

1
E125: Palantir’s Politics, Elon’s Approach to DOGE, and AI’s Effects on Writing w/ Byrne Hobart 58:51

26d ago58:51

58:51

Today on Upstream, Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg dive into the wide-ranging effects of technological change on media and society. They cover the AI debate, blogging's social impact, AI's influence on search and data, the changing news industry, foreign aid cuts, and the rise of new tech elites. This episode originally aired on The Riff (March 11,…

1
E124: How to Have A Philosophical Marriage w/ Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks 1:12:09

29d ago1:12:09

1:12:09

Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode from Modern Relationships which originally aired on February 28, 2025 where Erik Torenberg interviews philosophy professors Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks about their unconventional marriage, the role of philosophy in their relationship, the impact of their public profile, and how they balance personal…

1
A tale of two Americas in one $50K cash withdrawal 41:13

1M ago41:13

41:13

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) explains the standard procedure for large withdrawals in bank branches, with particular focus on the viral story published in The Cut about a woman who withdrew $50,000 cash from a bank and handed it to scammers. Certain minor details in the article set off a year-long investigation where he identified the exact physical …

1
E123: Trump & The Game of Populism w/ Samo Burja 59:15

1M ago59:15

59:15

Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the limitations of populist politics, the difficulty populists face in effecting change despite electoral wins, and the influence of digital democracy on modern governance. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show by taking ou…

1
Carl Zimmer on the Hidden Life in the Air We Breathe 51:43

1M ago51:43

51:43

Carl Zimmer is one of the finest science communicators of our time, having spent decades writing about biology, evolution, and heredity. His latest (and 16th) book, Air-Borne: The Hidden History of the Life We Breathe, explores something even more fundamental—how the very air around us is teeming with life, from pollen to pathogens to microbes floa…

1
E122: Victor Davis Hanson on What Trump Thinks of Zelensky and Predicting Geopolitics 37:51

1M ago37:51

37:51

In this Upstream episode, Erik Torenberg sits down with military historian Victor Davis Hanson. They discuss the future of Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, the evolution of the American left, and Donald Trump's potential future legacy. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape …

1
AI, data centers, and power economics, with Azeem Azhar 1:13:53

1M ago1:13:53

1:13:53

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Azeem Azhar, writer of the Exponential View newsletter, to discuss the massive data center buildout powering AI and its implications for our energy infrastructure. The conversation covers the physical limitations of modern datacenters, the challenges of electricity generation, the societal ripples from histor…

1
E121: Kevin Kelly on What Makes Us Human in an AI World 50:16

1M ago50:16

50:16

In this episode of Upstream, we’re releasing Erik Torenberg’s interview from 2023 with Kevin Kelly, founding executive editor of Wired Magazine, discussing Kevin’s new advice book, the impact of gratitude, and how technology, especially AI, interacts with and shapes human existence and culture. — 📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publi…

1
E120: Why Europe Matters for America’s Future w/ Samo Burja 1:00:10

1M ago1:00:10

1:00:10

This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the widespread interest in U.S. politics and its global influence, particularly in Western and European countries, the internet's role in synchronizing political and cultural norms, and potential changes in European political landscapes influenced by American ideologies and media. — 📰 Be …

1
E119: Free Trade, AI Integration, and Shopify Q4 Results w/ Shopify President Harley Finkelstein 58:43

2M ago58:43

58:43

Erik Torenberg interviews Harley Finkelstein, president of Shopify, discussing tariffs, political shifts, Shopify's earnings, and the evolution of entrepreneurship. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/Turp…

1
You can’t retract the facts 42:03

2M ago42:03

42:03

In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) responds to a recent request by a crypto unicorn founder / bank CEO to retract his essay Debanking (and debunking?). Come for the note about editorial standards and independence, stay for the diss track. – Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/editorial-standards-and-indep…

1
Gregory Clark on Social Mobility, Migration, and Assortative Mating (Live at Mercatus) 1:23:14

2M ago1:23:14

1:23:14

How much of your life’s trajectory was set in motion centuries ago? Gregory Clark has spent decades studying social mobility, and his findings suggest that where you land in society is far more predictable than we like to think. Using historical data, surname analysis, and migration patterns, Clark argues that social mobility rates have remained la…

1
E118: Ending Woke, Why Elon Wins, and A Return to Innovation w/ Marc Andreessen [Moment of Zen repost] 1:48:29

2M ago1:48:29

1:48:29

Marc Andreessen and Erik Torenberg discuss the ongoing political and cultural shift in America, covering topics such as preference falsification, the role of DEI in tech and other sectors, the influence of group chats, and the emerging dynamic in politics with highly capable appointments in the new administration. — 📰Be notified early when Turpenti…

1
E117: The Future of Martian & Interplanetary Societies w/ Samo Burja 1:01:25

2M ago1:01:25

1:01:25

This week on Upstream, Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the economic, political, and cultural implications of colonizing Mars and the Moon, discussing space treaties, potential Martian and Earth societal divergence, and the technological advancements driving humanity's future as a multi-planetary species. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine'…

1
Stablecoins and shenanigans, with Zeke Faux 1:27:03

2M ago1:27:03

1:27:03

In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) is joined by Zeke Faux, investigative reporter at Bloomberg and author of Number Go Up, to discuss stablecoins and crypto fraud. They dive into Tether's controversial history, the senate’s emerging GENIUS act, and how crypto enables various types of financial crime. The conversation explores how Tether w…

1
E116: Stuck Academia, US vs China, and Why Startups Work 1:03:43

2M ago1:03:43

1:03:43

Today, we're re-releasing an episode from 2023 where Erik Torenberg sits down with physicist and startup founder Steve Hsu on topics including the ideological shift in academia, the impact of AI on labor, China's technological advancements and geopolitical position, and the global fertility decline. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new…

1
Power plays: grid economics and engineering, with Travis Dauwalter 1:13:46

2M ago1:13:46

1:13:46

Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) is joined by Travis Dauwalter, energy enthusiast (and PhD), to explain the systems we often take for granted behind the US electrical grid. The conversation covers how the grid maintains perfect supply-demand balance in real-time, the challenges of integrating renewable energy sources, and why America actually has three …

1
E115: New Tariff Implications, DeepSeek and Open Source Analysis, and Meta’s Big Bets w/ Byrne Hobart 1:10:53

2M ago1:10:53

1:10:53

Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart discuss the implications of recent tariffs, the impact of AI advancements like DeepSeek, Meta's investments in VR and AI, stock market dynamics, and differing perspectives on open-source AI models. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape ou…

1
Ross Douthat on Why Religion Makes More Sense Than You Think 1:13:38

2M ago1:13:38

1:13:38

Sign Up for the Boston Listener Meet Up For Ross Douthat, phenomena like UFO sightings and the simulation hypothesis don't challenge religious belief—they demonstrate how difficult it is to escape religious questions entirely. His new book, Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious makes the case for religious faith in an age of apparent disenchant…

1
E114: Tyler Cowen on Legacy, Twitter + Harvard, and Fertility Decline [Upstream Archive] 59:58

2M ago59:58

59:58

Tyler Cowen discusses his book on the greatest economists of all time, evaluates the contributions of macroeconomics, and touches on topics such as stagnation, AI, fertility, and the future of academia and societal trends. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help shape our show …

1
E113: Reflections on Yarvin, Why the Right is Stuck, and Startups as Dictatorships w/ Samo Burja 58:09

2M ago58:09

58:09

In this episode, Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg discuss Curtis Yarvin's recent New York Times interview. They explored his ideas, especially the comparison between corporate market dynamics and government functionality, and the need for live players in leadership to prevent bureaucratic decay. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new public…

1
The landmines buried in the fine print of Chicago’s new casino deal 44:43

2M ago44:43

44:43

In today’s episode Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) examines a Chicago casino investment, first of its kind within the city limits. Patrick reads from his Bits About Money essay (published January 2025) with additional commentary based on recent developments. The discussion reveals how municipal politics, grievances about national and local economic his…

1
E112: Election Update, Tech’s Political Shift, and America’s Stuck GDP | This Won’t Last 1:13:35

2M ago1:13:35

1:13:35

This week on Upstream, we’re sharing Keith Rabois, Kevin Ryan, Logan Bartlett, and Zach Weinberg’s discussion of the 2025 post-election landscape centered on Trump's victory, examining his evolved approach and tech industry support, while exploring interconnected policy challenges around immigration, corporate politics, urban crime, and market regu…

1
The banking crisis, two years later 1:11:08

2M ago1:11:08

1:11:08

Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) revisits his March 2023 essay that explained the dynamics of bank runs and system stress during the banking crisis one month prior. With data from a newly released Federal Reserve paper, he analyzes the true scope of the banking stress - including revelations that 22 banks experienced severe deposit outflows, far more th…

1
E111: Samo Burja & Auren Hoffman on the Decline of Fertility Rates and Institutional Trust 1:20:27

2M ago1:20:27

1:20:27

Samo Burja and Auren Hoffman discuss various topics including the Great Founder Theory, the decline of trust in elites, falling fertility rates, and the importance of exceptional individuals in shaping history and future societal structures. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 H…

1
Joe Boyd on the Birth of Rock, World Music, and Being There for Everything 1:00:42

2M ago1:00:42

1:00:42

Sign Up for the Boston Listener Meet Up Joe Boyd was there when Dylan went electric, when Pink Floyd was born, and when Paul Simon brought Graceland to the world. But far from being just another music industry insider, Boyd has spent decades exploring how the world's musical traditions connect and transform each other. His new book And the Roots of…

1
E110: Crypto Debanking: What Really Happened | Patrick McKenzie 1:05:43

3M ago1:05:43

1:05:43

Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an interview between Erik Torenberg and Patrick McKenzie. Patrick discusses Operation Chokepoint, the origins of debanking, and how it affects the crypto industry, offering detailed insights into the political motivations, regulatory complexities, and practical ramifications of such banking decisions. — 📰 Be notif…

1
Debanking explained 1:02:04

3M ago1:02:04

1:02:04

In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) unpacks his 24k word essay Debanking (and Debunking?) originally published on Bits about Money. He discusses the contours of recent debanking claims made by the crypto community, notably Marc Andreessen, Nic Carter, and explains how banking actually works as infrastructure rather than conspiracy. The con…

1
E109: Dating & Relationships Deep Dive w/ Noah Smith and Katherine Dee (Default Friend) 57:24

3M ago57:24

57:24

This week on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode of Econ102. Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith talk with Katherine Dee (@default_friend) about dating in the 21st century, differences in dating markets, the impact of feminism, technology's influence on cultural creativity, societal shifts, and the state of online subcultures. — 📰 Be notified early when…

1
E108: Should AI have Rights? With Nathan Labenz and Yeshua God, Robopsychologist 3:01:42

3M ago3:01:42

3:01:42

This week on Upstream, Nathan Labenz explores the fascinating and controversial realm of AI consciousness with robo-psychologist Yeshua God. Yeshua tackles the philosophical and ethical considerations of AI consciousness, discussing AI self-awareness, memory, and emotional capacity, while debating the implications of treating AI as sentient beings.…

1
Retrospective on 2024, with Sammy Cottrell 1:05:11

3M ago1:05:11

1:05:11

In this special episode, Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) and his EA/producer Sammy Cottrell examine the production function behind Complex Systems, from studio logistics to transcript annotation and guest selection. They reflect on their most memorable episodes while discussing the podcast's core mission of making complex systems more legible and ensur…

1
E107: How Desalination Could Create New Superpowers | Samo Burja 1:07:22

3M ago1:07:22

1:07:22

Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the advancements in desalination technology, its current applications, and potential to address global water scarcity. They explore the technological and economic feasibility of large-scale desalination projects and their implications on geopolitics and environmental resilience. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpe…

1
Scott Sumner on Monetary Rules, Blooming Late, and the Death of Cinema 1:08:14

3M ago1:08:14

1:08:14

Scott Sumner didn't follow the typical path to economic influence. He nearly lost his teaching job before tenure, did his best research after most academics slow down, and found his largest audience through blogging in his 50s and 60s, in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. Yet this unconventional journey led him to become one of the most influe…

1
E106: The Man Who Wrote the Book on NVIDIA 59:25

3M ago59:25

59:25

Author Tae Kim joins Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart to discuss his book 'The NVIDIA Way,' highlighting CEO Jensen Huang's transformation of Nvidia into a tech giant, the company's unique culture, and Nvidia's crucial strategic decisions. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess 🙏 Help…

1
Seeing like an outsider, with Yatharth 1:19:31

3M ago1:19:31

1:19:31

In this episode, Yatharth (@askyatharth), a graduate student and software engineer, turns the tables to interview Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) about cultural codes, writing, and AI. Patrick shares how his early experiences fighting credit report errors and navigating cross-cultural business environments led to his distinctive approach to understandi…

1
E105: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova: Making Relationships Work 1:04:42

3M ago1:04:42

1:04:42

Varda Space founder Delian Asparouhov and writer Nadia Asparouhova get surprisingly candid about what makes their relationship work - from their chaotic first date to how they've built a life together while pursuing ambitious work. Turns out: sometimes talking less, not more, is the key to lasting partnership. This is the first episode of Turpentin…

1
Conversations with Tyler 2024 Retrospective 58:05

3M ago58:05

58:05

Donate to Conversations with Tyler Give Crypto Other Ways to Give On this special year-in-review episode, Tyler and producer Jeff Holmes look back on the past year in the show and more, including covering the most popular and underrated episodes, fielding listener questions, reviewing Tyler’s pop culture picks from 2014, mulling over ideas for what…

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